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	<title>Comments on: Surveilling the Surveillance: Ai Weiwei Photos</title>
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	<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/06/10/surveilling-the-surveillance-ai-weiwei-photos/</link>
	<description>我看中国</description>
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		<title>By: Chad</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/06/10/surveilling-the-surveillance-ai-weiwei-photos/comment-page-2/#comment-2940</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=1002#comment-2940</guid>
		<description>Good, fucking Tiananmen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good, fucking Tiananmen</p>
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		<title>By: C. Custer</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/06/10/surveilling-the-surveillance-ai-weiwei-photos/comment-page-1/#comment-2843</link>
		<dc:creator>C. Custer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=1002#comment-2843</guid>
		<description>&quot;Do you really believe that a person, who helped you paint your house, then embarrassed you in front of your guests, would care your children ?&quot;

Honestly, YES. Here&#039;s why: he might have embarrassed me in front of others and caused me to lose face, but honestly, what have I lost? He hurt my pride. Who cares? However, he helped paint the house, which is something REAL. It makes the house better and other people can see how nice looking a house I have. 

My assumption would be he WOULD care about my children, for two reasons. 1) He has already shown he&#039;s willing to help when it&#039;s needed -- not willing to help &lt;em&gt;my ego&lt;/em&gt;, sure,  but willing to help in &lt;em&gt;real life&lt;/em&gt; and 2) nearly everyone who isn&#039;t evil genuinely cares about children. They are cute, they are innocent, and they remind us of ourselves. I think it&#039;s utterly absurd for you to suggest Ai doesn&#039;t care about the DEATHS of Chinese children just because he made the government lose a little face. I believe he, like any human being, is perfectly capable of separating the two and caring deeply about the people of China even as he disrespects the government. You may not agree with his &lt;em&gt;methods&lt;/em&gt;, but you really haven&#039;t offered any evidence whatsoever to indicate that he doesn&#039;t care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Do you really believe that a person, who helped you paint your house, then embarrassed you in front of your guests, would care your children ?&#8221;</p>
<p>Honestly, YES. Here&#8217;s why: he might have embarrassed me in front of others and caused me to lose face, but honestly, what have I lost? He hurt my pride. Who cares? However, he helped paint the house, which is something REAL. It makes the house better and other people can see how nice looking a house I have. </p>
<p>My assumption would be he WOULD care about my children, for two reasons. 1) He has already shown he&#8217;s willing to help when it&#8217;s needed &#8212; not willing to help <em>my ego</em>, sure,  but willing to help in <em>real life</em> and 2) nearly everyone who isn&#8217;t evil genuinely cares about children. They are cute, they are innocent, and they remind us of ourselves. I think it&#8217;s utterly absurd for you to suggest Ai doesn&#8217;t care about the DEATHS of Chinese children just because he made the government lose a little face. I believe he, like any human being, is perfectly capable of separating the two and caring deeply about the people of China even as he disrespects the government. You may not agree with his <em>methods</em>, but you really haven&#8217;t offered any evidence whatsoever to indicate that he doesn&#8217;t care.</p>
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		<title>By: Wahaha</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/06/10/surveilling-the-surveillance-ai-weiwei-photos/comment-page-1/#comment-2830</link>
		<dc:creator>Wahaha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=1002#comment-2830</guid>
		<description>Custer,

You didnt get my point :

US did nothing to Ai weiwei, who the F@#$ did he think he was ?

Do you really believe that a person, who helped you paint your house, then embarrassed you in front of your guests, would care your children ?

Please, if you do, then we are either living in different worlds or there is no logic on earth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Custer,</p>
<p>You didnt get my point :</p>
<p>US did nothing to Ai weiwei, who the F@#$ did he think he was ?</p>
<p>Do you really believe that a person, who helped you paint your house, then embarrassed you in front of your guests, would care your children ?</p>
<p>Please, if you do, then we are either living in different worlds or there is no logic on earth.</p>
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		<title>By: Old Tales Retold</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/06/10/surveilling-the-surveillance-ai-weiwei-photos/comment-page-1/#comment-2700</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Tales Retold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 02:59:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=1002#comment-2700</guid>
		<description>I believe I&#039;ve made that gesture toward the White House myself---and rightfully so, given what America has been through the past eight years!  Also, there&#039;s a group of peace activists who have been camping a few feet from the White House for a couple decades now, for what it&#039;s worth.  Their &quot;tent&quot; is made of dirty tarps and surrounded by grisly photos of war victims.

But more to the point, Ai Weiwei&#039;s medium seems to be, like Custer said, gestures of autonomy and, I would add, gestures of community (as in the Documenta project I mentioned earlier).  He has always had an uncomfortable relationship with authority, so I&#039;m a little surprised, too, that the government let him in on the Olympic designs... but there you have it, they should have known what they were getting into.  Another person with a checkered past politically-speaking, Zhang Yimou, also helped out, but he played nice.  Which route is more principled?

As to Michael Fay... I didn&#039;t feel all that sympathetic for him because he seemed like a spoiled rich kid.  But I do like graffiti.  So, good question.  

Obviously, people have different definitions of what constitutes good art.  Performance art, which doesn&#039;t result in a &quot;commodity&quot; in the same way as, say, painting has always been particularly controversial.  And China isn&#039;t the only country to get pissed off about art, performance or otherwise.  Giuliani&#039;s attack on the Brooklyn Museum is another example.  

What do you think of Diego Rivera painting Marx and Lenin into a mural commissioned by Ford?  I understand that gestures like that seem a bit cheap in that the artist, whether Rivera or Ai Weiwei, is living off the person he is insulting... but how else are artists to earn their keep?  And who else are they to insult except the powerful?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe I&#8217;ve made that gesture toward the White House myself&#8212;and rightfully so, given what America has been through the past eight years!  Also, there&#8217;s a group of peace activists who have been camping a few feet from the White House for a couple decades now, for what it&#8217;s worth.  Their &#8220;tent&#8221; is made of dirty tarps and surrounded by grisly photos of war victims.</p>
<p>But more to the point, Ai Weiwei&#8217;s medium seems to be, like Custer said, gestures of autonomy and, I would add, gestures of community (as in the Documenta project I mentioned earlier).  He has always had an uncomfortable relationship with authority, so I&#8217;m a little surprised, too, that the government let him in on the Olympic designs&#8230; but there you have it, they should have known what they were getting into.  Another person with a checkered past politically-speaking, Zhang Yimou, also helped out, but he played nice.  Which route is more principled?</p>
<p>As to Michael Fay&#8230; I didn&#8217;t feel all that sympathetic for him because he seemed like a spoiled rich kid.  But I do like graffiti.  So, good question.  </p>
<p>Obviously, people have different definitions of what constitutes good art.  Performance art, which doesn&#8217;t result in a &#8220;commodity&#8221; in the same way as, say, painting has always been particularly controversial.  And China isn&#8217;t the only country to get pissed off about art, performance or otherwise.  Giuliani&#8217;s attack on the Brooklyn Museum is another example.  </p>
<p>What do you think of Diego Rivera painting Marx and Lenin into a mural commissioned by Ford?  I understand that gestures like that seem a bit cheap in that the artist, whether Rivera or Ai Weiwei, is living off the person he is insulting&#8230; but how else are artists to earn their keep?  And who else are they to insult except the powerful?</p>
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		<title>By: C. Custer</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/06/10/surveilling-the-surveillance-ai-weiwei-photos/comment-page-1/#comment-2695</link>
		<dc:creator>C. Custer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=1002#comment-2695</guid>
		<description>Wahaha, I think you&#039;re being a little overdramatic. First of all, do you really think he &quot;ruined the party&quot; of the Olympics? 99.9999% of foreigners have no idea who he even is, let alone whatever he said. The point of the Olympics was an international coming-out party for China, no? They went well, and most people were impressed, what exactly did Ai &quot;ruin&quot;?

Secondly, I really don&#039;t see how any of this is self-centered. In these middle finger photos, you can&#039;t even tell whose finger it is. I think the point is a general gesture of individualism and autonomy over being controlled by other things (whether they be the government, tradition, convention, whatever), not anything about disrespect for China (or the US, or France, or wherever else he has taken them). Personally, the photo of him flipping off the White House doesn&#039;t bother me &lt;em&gt;at all&lt;/em&gt;.

As a sidenote, you couldn&#039;t sleep naked in DC because public nudity is a crime, but you could certainly sit in front of the White House with garbage, or write &quot;fuck&quot; on your chest and take a photo there, or whatever else. That IS part of your rights, yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wahaha, I think you&#8217;re being a little overdramatic. First of all, do you really think he &#8220;ruined the party&#8221; of the Olympics? 99.9999% of foreigners have no idea who he even is, let alone whatever he said. The point of the Olympics was an international coming-out party for China, no? They went well, and most people were impressed, what exactly did Ai &#8220;ruin&#8221;?</p>
<p>Secondly, I really don&#8217;t see how any of this is self-centered. In these middle finger photos, you can&#8217;t even tell whose finger it is. I think the point is a general gesture of individualism and autonomy over being controlled by other things (whether they be the government, tradition, convention, whatever), not anything about disrespect for China (or the US, or France, or wherever else he has taken them). Personally, the photo of him flipping off the White House doesn&#8217;t bother me <em>at all</em>.</p>
<p>As a sidenote, you couldn&#8217;t sleep naked in DC because public nudity is a crime, but you could certainly sit in front of the White House with garbage, or write &#8220;fuck&#8221; on your chest and take a photo there, or whatever else. That IS part of your rights, yes.</p>
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		<title>By: Wahaha</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/06/10/surveilling-the-surveillance-ai-weiwei-photos/comment-page-1/#comment-2692</link>
		<dc:creator>Wahaha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 20:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=1002#comment-2692</guid>
		<description>and here is another picture of his, another middle finger :

http://www.artfacts.net/artworkpics/7145b.jpg

Who the F@#$ did he think he is ? OK, CCP mistreated his father, he showed CCP a middle finger. What did US do to him that he should be given the right doing something like that ?

He is a typical scumbag who has no respect for anyone else. It is all about &quot;mememe.&quot;, and suddenly pretend he cares the victims in earthquake. WTF ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and here is another picture of his, another middle finger :</p>
<p><a href="http://www.artfacts.net/artworkpics/7145b.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.artfacts.net/artworkpics/7145b.jpg</a></p>
<p>Who the F@#$ did he think he is ? OK, CCP mistreated his father, he showed CCP a middle finger. What did US do to him that he should be given the right doing something like that ?</p>
<p>He is a typical scumbag who has no respect for anyone else. It is all about &#8220;mememe.&#8221;, and suddenly pretend he cares the victims in earthquake. WTF ?</p>
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		<title>By: Wahaha</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/06/10/surveilling-the-surveillance-ai-weiwei-photos/comment-page-1/#comment-2691</link>
		<dc:creator>Wahaha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 20:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=1002#comment-2691</guid>
		<description>No disrespect, but I dont know what on earth you two are talking about:

The reason I called him an @$$ is that he did NOT raised the topic until the perfect time FOR HIMSELF. if he had raised the simliar topics before, he wouldnt have been offered the job as the designer of bird next.  so what does &quot;It’s more like he had mocking the color of your living room forever..&quot; mean ?

also I dont understand &quot;They should paint your house and then tell you you suck.&quot; simply cuz he is artist then he should get a pass after ruining someone&#039;s party ? If so, I couldve put together some garbages and claimed myself as an artist and went on to sleep naked on the pennsylvania avenue in Washington DC. IS IT PART OF MY RIGHT ?

How do you think Michael Fay&#039;s case ? do you think Singapore government did right thing or not ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No disrespect, but I dont know what on earth you two are talking about:</p>
<p>The reason I called him an @$$ is that he did NOT raised the topic until the perfect time FOR HIMSELF. if he had raised the simliar topics before, he wouldnt have been offered the job as the designer of bird next.  so what does &#8220;It’s more like he had mocking the color of your living room forever..&#8221; mean ?</p>
<p>also I dont understand &#8220;They should paint your house and then tell you you suck.&#8221; simply cuz he is artist then he should get a pass after ruining someone&#8217;s party ? If so, I couldve put together some garbages and claimed myself as an artist and went on to sleep naked on the pennsylvania avenue in Washington DC. IS IT PART OF MY RIGHT ?</p>
<p>How do you think Michael Fay&#8217;s case ? do you think Singapore government did right thing or not ?</p>
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		<title>By: Old Tales Retold</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/06/10/surveilling-the-surveillance-ai-weiwei-photos/comment-page-1/#comment-2688</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Tales Retold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=1002#comment-2688</guid>
		<description>@ Wahaha, 

In response to your question, I would hope my children would admire someone like Ai Weiwei, though that doesn&#039;t mean his brand of art is appropriate for all ages!  Previously, I rejected your comparison between codes of personal politeness and the right way of addressing political realities.  But maybe I&#039;ll run with your metaphor, after all (as Custer did above).  

If Ai Weiwei is ruining a party or a house warming or whatever by being critical when everyone else is excited and supportive, all the while being &quot;protected&quot; by his work on the Bird&#039;s Nest... that seems exactly the right role for an artist.  

Artists needn&#039;t be political, of course, but if they are political, they should make things awkward for others.  Otherwise, they are celebrating power.  I was all about Obama posters during the 2008 campaign, for example, but I don&#039;t feel as good about artwork celebrating him now that he is in control.  It just doesn&#039;t seem right.  Basically, artists SHOULD bite the hand that feeds them----as everyone from Michelangelo to Diego Rivera to Chinese painters under Manchu rule did.   They should paint your house and then tell you you suck.

But artists need money, too.   I the best source of funding is the state (otherwise it gets to be this weird insider game with other rich people)---but state endowments can&#039;t be subjected to the interference of every congressman sensitive about this or that.  The Bird&#039;s Nest was a sort of endowment for Ai Weiwei.  I think he used it well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Wahaha, </p>
<p>In response to your question, I would hope my children would admire someone like Ai Weiwei, though that doesn&#8217;t mean his brand of art is appropriate for all ages!  Previously, I rejected your comparison between codes of personal politeness and the right way of addressing political realities.  But maybe I&#8217;ll run with your metaphor, after all (as Custer did above).  </p>
<p>If Ai Weiwei is ruining a party or a house warming or whatever by being critical when everyone else is excited and supportive, all the while being &#8220;protected&#8221; by his work on the Bird&#8217;s Nest&#8230; that seems exactly the right role for an artist.  </p>
<p>Artists needn&#8217;t be political, of course, but if they are political, they should make things awkward for others.  Otherwise, they are celebrating power.  I was all about Obama posters during the 2008 campaign, for example, but I don&#8217;t feel as good about artwork celebrating him now that he is in control.  It just doesn&#8217;t seem right.  Basically, artists SHOULD bite the hand that feeds them&#8212;-as everyone from Michelangelo to Diego Rivera to Chinese painters under Manchu rule did.   They should paint your house and then tell you you suck.</p>
<p>But artists need money, too.   I the best source of funding is the state (otherwise it gets to be this weird insider game with other rich people)&#8212;but state endowments can&#8217;t be subjected to the interference of every congressman sensitive about this or that.  The Bird&#8217;s Nest was a sort of endowment for Ai Weiwei.  I think he used it well.</p>
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		<title>By: C. Custer</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/06/10/surveilling-the-surveillance-ai-weiwei-photos/comment-page-1/#comment-2682</link>
		<dc:creator>C. Custer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=1002#comment-2682</guid>
		<description>@ Wahaha, I don&#039;t think that&#039;s a fair metaphor. Hadn&#039;t he been saying political stuff like that for years? It&#039;s more like he had mocking the color of your living room forever, then you invited him to paint your house and were disappointed that after he painted the outside he was still mocking the color of the living room. 

I don&#039;t see it as a particularly &quot;asshole&quot; thing to do, either. Whether you agree with him, or his methods, or not, I think we can agree his motivation is to improve China, yes? Maybe you think he&#039;s trying to do the wrong thing or go at it the wrong way, but you have to give him credit for trying to improve things.

And criticism is a tactic that&#039;s worked well before. Look at all the harshly critical literature that came out of May 4th...say what you will about the effectiveness of May 4th but that criticism led to study of new things, and that led to China&#039;s first study groups on Communism, one of which a young Mao Zedong joined....

Anyway, either way, didn&#039;t the government know what they were getting when they asked him to design the Bird&#039;s Nest?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Wahaha, I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a fair metaphor. Hadn&#8217;t he been saying political stuff like that for years? It&#8217;s more like he had mocking the color of your living room forever, then you invited him to paint your house and were disappointed that after he painted the outside he was still mocking the color of the living room. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see it as a particularly &#8220;asshole&#8221; thing to do, either. Whether you agree with him, or his methods, or not, I think we can agree his motivation is to improve China, yes? Maybe you think he&#8217;s trying to do the wrong thing or go at it the wrong way, but you have to give him credit for trying to improve things.</p>
<p>And criticism is a tactic that&#8217;s worked well before. Look at all the harshly critical literature that came out of May 4th&#8230;say what you will about the effectiveness of May 4th but that criticism led to study of new things, and that led to China&#8217;s first study groups on Communism, one of which a young Mao Zedong joined&#8230;.</p>
<p>Anyway, either way, didn&#8217;t the government know what they were getting when they asked him to design the Bird&#8217;s Nest?</p>
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		<title>By: Wahaha</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/06/10/surveilling-the-surveillance-ai-weiwei-photos/comment-page-1/#comment-2667</link>
		<dc:creator>Wahaha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:17:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=1002#comment-2667</guid>
		<description>&quot;....your reaction to him is directed back to politics....&quot;

C.Custer and OTR,

I was question if he is kind of a person you want your children to respect or despise. I didnt question his personal view of political system in China  as I said in previous post : &quot; Did he tell the truth ? maybe.&quot;

He accepted the offer as the designer of Bird Nest; he saw the efforts of millions of Chinese people in preparing Olympic; he saw the enthusiasm of Chinese people waiting for the opening of Olympic.

What did he do ?

Right after completion of Bird Nest, he started complaining about the human right record in China, refused to participate the opening ceremony. Was that not  a problem until the completion of Bird Nest ? of course not. So he waited for the PERFECT time when Beijing was ready for Olympic, he began to jerperdize the effort of millions of Chinese people, knowing that he had a perfect shield for himself.

That is like he helped your painting your house, then mock you about the color of living room in front of all of your guests.

He is an @$$hole.

BTW, I didnt think China should host Olympic, I thought the time was not ready yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;.your reaction to him is directed back to politics&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>C.Custer and OTR,</p>
<p>I was question if he is kind of a person you want your children to respect or despise. I didnt question his personal view of political system in China  as I said in previous post : &#8221; Did he tell the truth ? maybe.&#8221;</p>
<p>He accepted the offer as the designer of Bird Nest; he saw the efforts of millions of Chinese people in preparing Olympic; he saw the enthusiasm of Chinese people waiting for the opening of Olympic.</p>
<p>What did he do ?</p>
<p>Right after completion of Bird Nest, he started complaining about the human right record in China, refused to participate the opening ceremony. Was that not  a problem until the completion of Bird Nest ? of course not. So he waited for the PERFECT time when Beijing was ready for Olympic, he began to jerperdize the effort of millions of Chinese people, knowing that he had a perfect shield for himself.</p>
<p>That is like he helped your painting your house, then mock you about the color of living room in front of all of your guests.</p>
<p>He is an @$$hole.</p>
<p>BTW, I didnt think China should host Olympic, I thought the time was not ready yet.</p>
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