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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;The Nanjing Massacres and the Wenchuan Earthquake&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/04/01/the-nanjing-massacres-and-the-wenchuan-earthquake/</link>
	<description>我看中国</description>
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		<title>By: Today&#8217;s Links: China&#8217;s animation industry, green shanzhai spirit, and abduction problems &#124; Get Shanghaied</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/04/01/the-nanjing-massacres-and-the-wenchuan-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-1022</link>
		<dc:creator>Today&#8217;s Links: China&#8217;s animation industry, green shanzhai spirit, and abduction problems &#124; Get Shanghaied</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 00:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=577#comment-1022</guid>
		<description>[...] China Geeks translates an article by Hu Yong: &#8220;In Lu Chuan&#8217;s new film Nanjing, Nanjing!, the camera lens reveals cruelty to an extreme rarely seen in Chinese films; I had nightmares repeatedly the night after I watched it. In its hellish scenes, women are raped to death, men are massacred in every possible manner. The darkness of humanity, or perhaps it is just a flicker, explodes out of people with suffocating intensity. Clearly, Lu Chuan is doing his best [to show] this tragedy from seventy years ago originally was common people faced with fate and the extermination of souls in the midst of historic calamity, and from this show affirmation and respect for the value of human life. It&#8217;s a pity that the promulgation of Lu Chuan&#8217;s art still won&#8217;t overcome the enveloping inertia of reality.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] China Geeks translates an article by Hu Yong: &#8220;In Lu Chuan&#8217;s new film Nanjing, Nanjing!, the camera lens reveals cruelty to an extreme rarely seen in Chinese films; I had nightmares repeatedly the night after I watched it. In its hellish scenes, women are raped to death, men are massacred in every possible manner. The darkness of humanity, or perhaps it is just a flicker, explodes out of people with suffocating intensity. Clearly, Lu Chuan is doing his best [to show] this tragedy from seventy years ago originally was common people faced with fate and the extermination of souls in the midst of historic calamity, and from this show affirmation and respect for the value of human life. It&#8217;s a pity that the promulgation of Lu Chuan&#8217;s art still won&#8217;t overcome the enveloping inertia of reality.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Loar</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/04/01/the-nanjing-massacres-and-the-wenchuan-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-995</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Loar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 01:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=577#comment-995</guid>
		<description>Because no one else has yet quoted it:
&quot;One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic.&quot;
- Josef Stalin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because no one else has yet quoted it:<br />
&#8220;One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic.&#8221;<br />
- Josef Stalin</p>
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		<title>By: Remembering Sichuan Earthquake Victims: Harder Than You Might Think &#124; ChinaGeeks</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/04/01/the-nanjing-massacres-and-the-wenchuan-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-984</link>
		<dc:creator>Remembering Sichuan Earthquake Victims: Harder Than You Might Think &#124; ChinaGeeks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=577#comment-984</guid>
		<description>[...] we translated an editorial piece by Hu Yong that stressed the importance of remembering the dead by keeping track of them [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] we translated an editorial piece by Hu Yong that stressed the importance of remembering the dead by keeping track of them [...]</p>
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		<title>By: C. Custer</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/04/01/the-nanjing-massacres-and-the-wenchuan-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-970</link>
		<dc:creator>C. Custer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 07:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=577#comment-970</guid>
		<description>I think &quot;not related&quot; is a bit strong. Certainly, they aren&#039;t the same, but the authors point was mostly that when large numbers of people die (which happened in both instances) general numbers without specific information can have the effect of making something horrific seem abstract.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think &#8220;not related&#8221; is a bit strong. Certainly, they aren&#8217;t the same, but the authors point was mostly that when large numbers of people die (which happened in both instances) general numbers without specific information can have the effect of making something horrific seem abstract.</p>
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		<title>By: wooddoo</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/04/01/the-nanjing-massacres-and-the-wenchuan-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-968</link>
		<dc:creator>wooddoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 02:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=577#comment-968</guid>
		<description>The Rape of Nanking and the Wenchuan earthquake are not related.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Rape of Nanking and the Wenchuan earthquake are not related.</p>
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		<title>By: C. Custer</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/04/01/the-nanjing-massacres-and-the-wenchuan-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-884</link>
		<dc:creator>C. Custer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 03:54:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=577#comment-884</guid>
		<description>@ Stinky: With the caveat that I haven&#039;t read it in a while and don&#039;t have it in front of me at the moment, I&#039;d suggest you read &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Nanjing-Massacre-Journalist-Confronts-Institute/dp/0765603357/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1238644183&amp;sr=8-3&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this book&lt;/a&gt;, an exhaustively-researched account of the whole thing by a Japanese journalist. As I recall (and the Amazon summary confirms this, but like I said, it&#039;s been a while since I read it), he agrees with the veracity of the 300,000 number, although that might not refer to Nanjing itself as he provides a TON of evidence that the massacres started as soon as Japanese troops landed in Hangzhou Bay at the beginning of that campaign.

Either way, it&#039;s a &lt;i&gt;fascinating&lt;/i&gt; book, and much more well researched (and less biased) than Iris Chang&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Stinky: With the caveat that I haven&#8217;t read it in a while and don&#8217;t have it in front of me at the moment, I&#8217;d suggest you read <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Nanjing-Massacre-Journalist-Confronts-Institute/dp/0765603357/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1238644183&#038;sr=8-3" rel="nofollow">this book</a>, an exhaustively-researched account of the whole thing by a Japanese journalist. As I recall (and the Amazon summary confirms this, but like I said, it&#8217;s been a while since I read it), he agrees with the veracity of the 300,000 number, although that might not refer to Nanjing itself as he provides a TON of evidence that the massacres started as soon as Japanese troops landed in Hangzhou Bay at the beginning of that campaign.</p>
<p>Either way, it&#8217;s a <i>fascinating</i> book, and much more well researched (and less biased) than Iris Chang&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Wei</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/04/01/the-nanjing-massacres-and-the-wenchuan-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-871</link>
		<dc:creator>Wei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 18:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=577#comment-871</guid>
		<description>I really don&#039;t agree with what you are trying to relate, a &quot;Massacre&quot; is the intenting killing of a lot of people, a earthquake is not a &quot;Massacre&quot;. You cannot relate the two together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really don&#8217;t agree with what you are trying to relate, a &#8220;Massacre&#8221; is the intenting killing of a lot of people, a earthquake is not a &#8220;Massacre&#8221;. You cannot relate the two together.</p>
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		<title>By: Stinky</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/04/01/the-nanjing-massacres-and-the-wenchuan-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-866</link>
		<dc:creator>Stinky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 13:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=577#comment-866</guid>
		<description>A trip to the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C. is an excellent way to gain a bit of perspective. There&#039;s something unspeakably compelling about a room full of shoes taken from Jewish prisoners as they were entering the camps. Near the end of the exhibit, there is a large room with chairs where people can sit and watch interviews with survivors. I&#039;ve been twice, and there are always people crying everywhere. In fact, the hallways of the museum have many small recesses which were designed to provide privacy to those people who are overcome by what they see. One exhibit includes photographs of every Jew killed in an exclusively Jewish town in Poland. No one in the town survived.

Now, I&#039;d like to preface what I&#039;m about to write by saying that I am no apologist for the Japanese. Indeed, they commited unspeakable atrocities in China during the 1930s and 40s.

Having said that, I&#039;d like to say that this number thing is very interesting - and political. While I can&#039;t speak intelligently about the number of Jews who were victims of the Nazi&#039;s so-called &quot;Final Solution,&quot; I do feel comfortable suggesting that the figure 300,000 that is given for the number of dead in Nanjing is entirely unsupportable. The sad fact is, no one really knows how many people died. The Red Swastika Society (the swastika was a Buddhist symbol long before Hitler got hold of it), which buried many (though not all!) of the dead, disposed of 43,121 bodies between December 1937 and April 1938. While the dead in Nanjing numbered more than 43,121, no one knows exactly how much more. As historian Timothy Brook writes: &quot;[Japanese] regime apologists who seek to minimize Japan&#039;s responsibility for the atrocity at Nanjing now consistently invoke this number as incontrovertible evidence that the scale of killing was not in the hundreds of thousands, as Chinese claim...The Red Swastika number is a shockingly eye-catching fig leaf for the atrocity, offered almost as though 43,000 were both an understandable and an excusable figure. But this has become the standard final offer from those who desire to counter the popular Chinese estimates that run over 300,000. The high estimates may well be too high, yet 43,000 is too low. Whom the Red Swastika counted, and whom they didn&#039;t, is unclear. Most observers agree that the society&#039;s burials could not represent a complete record of how many died in the Rape of Nanking. Whether this figure excludes soldiers, for example, whether it excludes those who died beyond the immediate vicinity of the city walls, whether it excludes those whose corpses were burned or submerged: these are the sorts of questions that continue to provoke fierce dispute between those who desire to take the tarnish off Japan&#039;s reputation for military brutality and those who wish to add another layer. The historian may contribute by bringing forward data that narrows the range, but not by cutting a deal between the two sides.&quot; (see Timothy Brook&#039;s book *Collaboration,* Harvard Univ Press, 2005 - pp 141-2)

So, however many people died in Nanjing, it was too many. Even so, the debate of the number of people killed has as much to do with politics and nationalism as it does with the desire to provide an accurate accounting.

As far as  Ai Weiwei&#039;s efforts go, I completely support him. The handling of this by the CCP has been a shameless fiasco. The idea that parents are being threatened while the criminals who profitted from the shoddy construction of schools walk free is a travesty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A trip to the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C. is an excellent way to gain a bit of perspective. There&#8217;s something unspeakably compelling about a room full of shoes taken from Jewish prisoners as they were entering the camps. Near the end of the exhibit, there is a large room with chairs where people can sit and watch interviews with survivors. I&#8217;ve been twice, and there are always people crying everywhere. In fact, the hallways of the museum have many small recesses which were designed to provide privacy to those people who are overcome by what they see. One exhibit includes photographs of every Jew killed in an exclusively Jewish town in Poland. No one in the town survived.</p>
<p>Now, I&#8217;d like to preface what I&#8217;m about to write by saying that I am no apologist for the Japanese. Indeed, they commited unspeakable atrocities in China during the 1930s and 40s.</p>
<p>Having said that, I&#8217;d like to say that this number thing is very interesting &#8211; and political. While I can&#8217;t speak intelligently about the number of Jews who were victims of the Nazi&#8217;s so-called &#8220;Final Solution,&#8221; I do feel comfortable suggesting that the figure 300,000 that is given for the number of dead in Nanjing is entirely unsupportable. The sad fact is, no one really knows how many people died. The Red Swastika Society (the swastika was a Buddhist symbol long before Hitler got hold of it), which buried many (though not all!) of the dead, disposed of 43,121 bodies between December 1937 and April 1938. While the dead in Nanjing numbered more than 43,121, no one knows exactly how much more. As historian Timothy Brook writes: &#8220;[Japanese] regime apologists who seek to minimize Japan&#8217;s responsibility for the atrocity at Nanjing now consistently invoke this number as incontrovertible evidence that the scale of killing was not in the hundreds of thousands, as Chinese claim&#8230;The Red Swastika number is a shockingly eye-catching fig leaf for the atrocity, offered almost as though 43,000 were both an understandable and an excusable figure. But this has become the standard final offer from those who desire to counter the popular Chinese estimates that run over 300,000. The high estimates may well be too high, yet 43,000 is too low. Whom the Red Swastika counted, and whom they didn&#8217;t, is unclear. Most observers agree that the society&#8217;s burials could not represent a complete record of how many died in the Rape of Nanking. Whether this figure excludes soldiers, for example, whether it excludes those who died beyond the immediate vicinity of the city walls, whether it excludes those whose corpses were burned or submerged: these are the sorts of questions that continue to provoke fierce dispute between those who desire to take the tarnish off Japan&#8217;s reputation for military brutality and those who wish to add another layer. The historian may contribute by bringing forward data that narrows the range, but not by cutting a deal between the two sides.&#8221; (see Timothy Brook&#8217;s book *Collaboration,* Harvard Univ Press, 2005 &#8211; pp 141-2)</p>
<p>So, however many people died in Nanjing, it was too many. Even so, the debate of the number of people killed has as much to do with politics and nationalism as it does with the desire to provide an accurate accounting.</p>
<p>As far as  Ai Weiwei&#8217;s efforts go, I completely support him. The handling of this by the CCP has been a shameless fiasco. The idea that parents are being threatened while the criminals who profitted from the shoddy construction of schools walk free is a travesty.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Hearne</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/04/01/the-nanjing-massacres-and-the-wenchuan-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-865</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Hearne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=577#comment-865</guid>
		<description>Great piece, and I agree with what the author wrote. I think the presence of these types of monuments in the US plays a (small) part in our unwillingness to see even a few American soldiers die (which I think is good, and is something everyone should have). Anyone that goes to the Vietnam War Memorial in the US remembers it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great piece, and I agree with what the author wrote. I think the presence of these types of monuments in the US plays a (small) part in our unwillingness to see even a few American soldiers die (which I think is good, and is something everyone should have). Anyone that goes to the Vietnam War Memorial in the US remembers it.</p>
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		<title>By: &#8220;Abstract Numbers&#8221; of the Nanjing Massacre, Wenchuan earthquake victims &#187; The Peking Duck</title>
		<link>http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/2009/04/01/the-nanjing-massacres-and-the-wenchuan-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-862</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8220;Abstract Numbers&#8221; of the Nanjing Massacre, Wenchuan earthquake victims &#187; The Peking Duck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 07:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sun-zoo.com/chinageeks/?p=577#comment-862</guid>
		<description>[...] translation of a moving article that contends the large numbers with lots of zeroes but no specific final number and no actual [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] translation of a moving article that contends the large numbers with lots of zeroes but no specific final number and no actual [...]</p>
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